✨“Brands: Authenticity and showing who you really are” 💫 — Marc Snyderman
I am excited to feature Marc Snyderman, a Business Attorney | Disruptive Entrepreneur | #1 Amazon Best Selling Author in this BrandsTalk episode.
Marc is not believing in traditional law firm models as they are simply not sustainable going forward. He took a different approach, went the unconventional route, and disrupted it from the bottom up. He made it a subscription model to make it affordable for small and midsize businesses.
💡In this episode you learn all about Marc’s journey of being a disruptive entrepreneur and so much more!
He dives deep into the other roles he plays besides being an attorney.
The role as
💡a thought leader in his field,
💡the founder of “The Virtual Cocktail Club”,
💡a bestselling author with his book “Leading through the pandemic: Unconventional Wisdom from Heartfelt Leaders” .
💡He shares his perspective on what an authentic personal brand means.
💡Moreover, since Marc has a knack for branding he provides his valuable thoughts about how important branding is to business success.
Watch us on YouTube: https://youtu.be/xLD5LjpqReI
Connect with Marc Snyderman
Instagram: Disruptive Entrepreneur (@marcsnyderman) • Instagram photos and videos
LinkedIn: Marc Snyderman | LinkedIn
Twitter: Marc Snyderman (@MarcSnyderman) / Twitter
Book: Leading Through the Pandemic
Get Your Free Brand Building Guide and Checklist “The 4 Essential Steps to Build an Irresistible Brand” NOW: Brand Building Guide & Checklist
For more info visit: BridgetBrands.com
Ready for brand tories get inspired and learn rom thought leaders, CEOs, usiness owners, and managers ho tell their brand stories who hare their valuable insights rom their own experience. elcome to BrandsTalk. I'm your h st Brigitte. For brand lovers t is show is to help you develop a d grow your brand in a more s rategic and sustainable way. W at the talk, let's get started a d dive with me into the world o brands. I am really excited to have Mark Snyderman. On my show today. He s a business attorney at isruptive enterpreneur and a umber one Amazon Best Selling uthor. So Mark provides ractical and strategic business nd legal solutions to small and edium sized businesses at below arket rates. He invests upports and helps business grow nd look for opportunities to isrupt and better marketplaces. want to welcome Mark Snyderm n, welcome to BrandsTalk. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited to be here today. Yeah, thank you for being here today. Mark, I really appreciate your time. I know you're very busy. Yeah, to start out with, could you tell us a little bit about your background about your personal journey that brought you right there, where you are right now? Sure. Glad to talk about it. You know, so, you know, I guess it all started when I decided to go to law school after college, and what I really thought that I would become like a corporate attorney and follow that path, moved to New York went into a law firm in midtown Manhattan, and most of our clients were actually fashion clients. So we had a lot of the garment industry. You know, so Joel's store, some of the big fashion names, at the time were all of our clients, it was a lot of fun. But it was, you know, it was a real grind. And I realised, you know, pretty quickly that the law firm life really wasn't what I wanted to be doing. And the problem was, you're supporting just too many clients. And I had, you know, I mean, there's like hundreds and hundreds of clients, and you can't really know enough about any particular client to really support them. So I said, you know, I'd like to see the business side of it and try to go in house to accompany, where I'd only have one client and really kind of be able to delve into the company and really help them advance. So I got lucky and was able to join one of the cable companies when they were going public, about 18 months out of law school. So it was a great opportunity to join this, you know, billion dollar company, you know, became a billion dollar company overnight, because they went public. And you know, with that, you know, I learned a whole lot about mergers and acquisitions, corporate and securities law, class action law, just an end. But what I did find was, I kind of found myself and my bit my best skills. And what I found was, I was actually really good at taking technology and the high tech piece of it and translating it into English, and making it usable and understandable. So they would send me down to the engineering department to actually translate whatever they were doing into our disclosure documents and the public facing documents that we put out to say what the company was doing. What the other thing I found out is, I didn't want to be in a public company, I didn't want to be in a company that big, you kind of get lost, and you can't affect Enough, enough change. So I left there, and I went to a privately held company that was an Engineering and IT services company for the military. So mostly doing work for the US Department of Defence. And, you know, so we were doing weapon system development and prototyping and really cool stuff. And again, I found myself in a high tech environment where I could translate and turn that high tech into understandable concepts for the public and sell what we were doing. And we were able to train you know, so I started there just basically, as an attorney, with the idea that I would build out sort of this compliance department and help them get, you know, run their business in the right way. And within five years, they were like, you know, hey, you're pretty integrated into the business. You should run the business. So I I made the transition from being an attorney to being an operations person and I became Chief Operating Officer. And we were surrounded with the right people, we kind of saw the right opportunities. And the company grew like wildfire for five years, we went from 75 employees up to 300 employees in less than five years, which is a pretty extraordinary jump. I mean, we jumped up to $60 million in US in turnover, like it was, it's a really solid sizable company. And then I realised, you know, we didn't have the infrastructure, we needed to support what we've just built. So we spent the next few years sort of building out that infrastructure. And what it all taught me along the way was, this is, you know, you learn more, I always say you learn more from where you made mistakes than you do from where you're successful. Yeah, because I can always look at a mistake, and you can find the root cause of what that was and where I went wrong. When you're successful, and you do things, right. It's 25, or 50, different things that you did to make you get to that point. It's the one it's always figure, you know, and you can't figure out well, what was it that drove that growth or drove us to there, and it was hard to find. So the the failures are easier to pinpoint. So I left that company, I kind of got to a point where it wasn't, you know, we had a difference in opinion as to where we're going to go going forward between the owners and myself. And it was a mutual decision to say, You know what I'm going to do, I'm going to go do my own thing, and still support the company. So I still support that company to this day. I started my law firm five years ago, and I still support them as part of my client base. That's wonderful. That's a great story. And you have mentioned, yeah, you started your own law firm, around five years ago, right? So you were owner and president of Sniderman Law Group, but don't do that. So involved in different kinds of other companies as a founder and CEO, let's say see your Apollo Apollo line group, and also the founder of the virtual cocktail club, and so on. So I think you need to go deeper into that. But first, let's talk about the Sniderman locker up. So what is your main basis? Actually? So who? When it comes to Sniderman? Group, what are you doing? Exactly? And why did you start it in the first place? So what is your vision? And then yesterday, I think you posted you're very busy on LinkedIn, you posted a really interesting post about the big Why are Simon cynics big? Why that is something that plays into that. So what is your big why? So why did you started the company? What is your vision with it? Yeah, and what's your purpose? Right. So yeah, I mean, the law firm really became sort of, you know, so I'll go back to I'll circle back to you know, when I first started out as a lawyer, in you know, I'm gonna date myself, but it was, you know, 1997 98 When I was in a law firm in New York, and lawyers at that time, I'll use a I'll use a sports analogy, because it's just people kind of get it. In baseball, you have what sometimes there's a utility infielder, which is somebody, you can literally move around the room around them, have them play different positions for you based on whatever you need at the time. lawyers were in the late 90s. And, you know, back in history from before late 90s, utility infielders, you would call them in, you would bring them in, you could use them in a lot of different ways. So, if, you know, if, you know, Jill Stuart was one of our clients, she was a big fashion name back in the late 90s, early 2000s, when she was going to go get her new space in Soho. She called us, you know, we will go down and help her negotiate the lease, we would actually be in the space with her discussing what she was going to do, understanding it, and helping her in that way. Now, nobody would do that today. Like you, you would never see an attorney be brought in to go help their client, look at a space because nobody wants to spend six or $700 an hour for that attorney to be doing that. It makes no sense. And all I kept saying, and so now, attorneys have moved to a point where they're not infielders, they're not even in the outfield. They're not even they're not even in the game. They're just relief pitchers, where they're in the stands, watching, and why did that change? So I tried to figure it out when it's one of the circle law firm and say, what changed in the practice that made it so that, you know, people aren't using attorneys in the same way. And really what it is, is it's kind of it's, it's, it's a two fold piece one is, you know, The cost of it, and the cost has gotten completely out of hand, you know, billable hours that are written that six tenths of a, you know, they write in, you know, six, every six minutes, they're building something. So every every, every email that they send, they're going to put down six minutes of time, at $700 an hour. It's still 100. It's a $50, or 75, or $100 emails. And when you see that bill, as a business owner, you say, I'm not calling that I'm not doing that. That's ridiculous. And it just takes the whole incentive to call your attorney out of it. So you go to Google, you find a way to answer a question you just avoid. So attorneys become just fire, you know, firemen, fire women, they're just putting out fires all the time. They're not being proactive. So the thought was, how do I change the model? How do you disrupt that, and the only way to disrupt it is to get rid of the cost, right? I don't need a big, huge office. I don't need 50 people working for me, I'll use technology. Because attorneys are traditionally afraid of tech. They don't like it, they don't want to use Slack. They don't want to use messengers, or, you know, project management systems, or you know, they don't don't use any of this kind of tech. So I switched the model around and say, I would do it that way. And the other thing you have to do is you have to get rid of the concept that kids can come out of law school, making $200,000 a year, when they don't know how to do anything. Like it just it's it's a it's an unsustainable model. So you have to disrupt it from the bottom up. So the thought was, if we made it a subscription model, you can make it affordable for small and midsize businesses. So it's a monthly fee, right? So the clients pay a true flat fee. And it doesn't matter if they call me 5000 times in the month, or five times in a month, they're paying the same amount. So they know what the amount is that month. And some months, I get someone that works really well for me, you know, financially, some works that some months it doesn't. But as a whole, I'm providing the service that I want to provide to the people that I want to provide it to, which is the underserved community in the legal now because they can't afford it is small midsize businesses? Yeah, so this is a very innovative approach and very much going with sitecatalyst. So also state on your website, I think what we are different is we hustle. So what do you mean by that? Exactly? What is your perspective on? We are different? We hustle? So I you know, that's a it's a it's a funny? It's a good question. The difference is really that, you know, I go to my clients, and I'll go wherever the work needs to be done. I don't require you know, so all law firms are traditionally these big monolith buildings, right, with giant offices, and, you know, big huge conference rooms that overlook the city. So they want everybody to come see how great their offices, I took the opposite approach and say, Why would I make the client come to me, I actually go to the client. Right? Why why I can do other things on my way there. I can take calls. And when I get there, I can be there doing the work that they need done and help them and they don't need to pay for me to have a big office, they could care less. So I'm always before COVID, you know, I was out and about all day, every day, right? All over the place. So my hustle now is a little different. My hustle is that I will work from seven in the morning until 10 At night, and I do that pretty much every day. Oh, wow. So you're helping your clients every day? What are the major pain points? How do you support them throw? What are they gained? So that is the desires for you that would satisfy this transformation that you're helping them with? It kind of depends on the client, right? I mean, everybody's in a different phase. And one of the things you find, as you know, because because I have started my own businesses, I've run, you know, a decent sized business. And I've been in a business that was you know, 500 million up to a billion. So I've I've pretty much seen from the inside every kind of range of business and every business has inflection points along the way. And it is very different, you know, a zero to $1 million business is a completely different business than a one to five from one to 10 and that 1010 to 50 is a totally different sector of your life. So really, it becomes identifying where are they at in their growth phase, and helping them understand these are the things that are most important right now. So, you know, for a wonder, you know, everybody wants to be, you want to know you have processes, you want to have, you know, plans and processes and all this stuff. And you know, and anybody that's been in a bigger business, you know that without process, you have nothing, right. But when you run a zero to $1 million business, you don't need that much process. There's not enough people. And you're going to spend too much time worrying about making sure you're, you're you have all these processes down, when you should have just been selling, when the number one thing you needed to do was just get customers. So it's really a matter of helping the company understand where they add in their growth phase, what phase are they at in their life? And helping them pinpoint? Where should they be focused at that time? And as the lawyer, you know, plus strategist, right, the lawyer side of me is giving them here's the risks that we're looking at right now, how do we mitigate those risks, so that we can move the business forward. And and the risks change as well, as you get bigger, your risks are totally different, the more people you have, that becomes your number one risk. You know, here in the United States, HR, and HR law is probably one of your biggest risks that you have as a business. But when you're a startup, and you only have three to five people, it's not you don't have those issues. But when you get to 20 people and 50 people and 100 people, the issues start to pile up, across, you know, and then you've hurt you're crossing state lines, and we have different state laws all across the United States, the United States is a really different people think it's a very easy place to do business. Because you know, we have a free market and all this great stuff. But it is a very complex place because it is so different state to state as to what you're doing in height and what kind of business you have. You do business in California. It's a completely different world than doing business on the East Coast. Because California is regulations for human retail, their employment regulations are so heavily favoured to the employee, that it's a really tough place to do business. I'm sure you saw that. Elon Musk moved the Gigafactory, the Tesla giga factory from California to Texas. Why didn't he move it? It wasn't because he doesn't want to be in California doesn't exist, doesn't like it there. He moved because of the employment laws. Yeah. It's not favourable for a business, his size that's running, you know, a lot of you know, late industrial factories and industrial factory workers. He has to move he had to move, you know, to get better law. That's what he did. Wow, that's so interesting. I mean, we could go very deep into that. But I want to know, different sides of the market. I think also the audience. I want to circle back to you're also the founder of the virtual cockpit. So is this the lawyer side of you have a role? Are you playing in there? Exactly. It's definitely not the lawyer. It's much more the the entrepreneur that's sort of, you know, bought, you know, it was bottled up for many years. You know, I started out when, you know, I worked. I started working when I was probably eight years old for my dad. My father was a, you know, sort of a serial entrepreneur in the automotive industry. We had everything from auto parts, stores, to use car dealerships, new car dealerships, you know, we were doing everything. And I started working in his auto parts store when I was probably eight years old. And by, you know, I think by 14 or 15, I had my first business with my brother, we were detailing cars, like, you know, we would, and we had a totally innovative approach to how you were going to how we were going to do the business. My father had a dealership, so we would, we put fliers up all over the neighbourhood. And we would pick people's cars up in the morning, take them, take them, drive them to my to the dealership, get them cleaned in detail, and then bring them back. So it was like a full service. But this is like in like 1880s, like late 80s, early 90s. Nobody's doing this kind of like, you know, that kind of customised service for people. And I always look back and say, well, we should have kept that. That was a really good business. But, you know, I, I have this, I have a desire always to look at, you know, I call it whitespace. And what I mean by whitespace is, you know, when you're looking at a whiteboard, and you start to draw like competitors, or who's who's doing what, there's all this space that just exists. And you say to yourself, Well, shouldn't I be able to work in there? Why do I want to work in the same box as everybody else? There's always a way to do something that's sort of in between it, and it may not be the biggest idea. It may not be, you know, so I have a piece of software that just came that we just launched this past summer, and I call it whitespace. It's definitely whitespace software. It's a simple it's a very small niche. area of business process for a customer base that I know very well, because it's the same industry that I came out of. Right? And what did we do? We just kind of looked at the send, where where are the where are the missing components that would help that business drive forward? So I just sort of pick off that component and say, we'll just build that, you know, it may grow, we, you know, we have visions, we could grow it into the other pieces. But why start there? Why not start in an area where nobody's people just aren't? Exactly. It's kind of a blue ocean strategy or gap that you can fill, and provide value for fun in this value chain activities? Whether it's vertical or horizontal? Yeah, it's exactly. Just my own name for it. Yeah, it's your name. So, like, virtual cocktail club, I guess? I guess I didn't answer your question. Yeah. I mean, what exactly, yeah. So where does it come from? So it came from the concept of so every, you know, before COVID, I travelled a lot, right? I mean, I was travelling, you know, 2530 weeks a year, all over the, you know, globally, mostly domestic, but some global travel. And I have a, I love cocktails, just I like, you know, cool cocktails, stuff that nobody, you know, people come up with the different cocktails with different concoctions and whatever they want to do. So I have a thing that every time we would go to a city, I'd find, you know, a speakeasy or a number one, or a highly rated cocktail bar, and I would go try something. And one of the things I miss was not just the cocktail, but the conversations at the cocktail bar. You meet interesting people when you're out and about on travel. And I like to talk to people and see what their story is, and where are they going? And what are they doing? And, you know, I missed it. So I said, Well, how could we bring that experience to people again, you know, where we could connect and have those kinds of conversations. So so we started what we call the virtual cocktail club. You know, I know some really good mixologist bartenders in the area, we talked about how do we how could we put something together, that we could send somebody, a kid that had ingredients to make the cocktail, bring on a bartender and actually teach them about the cocktail and how to citrus interact with alcohol? What happens when you shake a drink first, third, drink, you know, the simple things that make that make mixing a drink, really an art form? And not just, I threw together, you know, gin and tonic, and I threw it in the glass. And I certainly understand, well, how do you make that gin and tonic or better drink? You know, what happens when you put the lime in before you before you before you put the gin? You know, why do you do certain things and turn it into an experience where you're teaching somebody how to do something, and you're creating the environment where they can speak to one another. And you know, yet it's not the same thing as sitting in a bar. But it's close. And we try to make that environment as close as we can to being in a cocktail bar and being able to talk to people and just have those kind of conversations. So that's really where it was born from, kind of just born out of Jose born out of boredom, but born out of the the idea that, you know, we wanted to, you know, create that experience all over again. I mean, you are definitely an out of box thinker and very creative person and you seeing everything that is out there, a lot of problem but really an opportunity to create something new. I really, really like that. Great. Yeah. And he also took another opportunity to have also become an author, and best selling author of the book leading through the pandemic unconventional discount from the heartfelt leaders. So you bear co author, with several others have stepped up to share the lows and the highs of the 2020 and what it means for all of us as leaders in the 21st century. He'll you need our publisher, because my book was kind of the following both of that significant women leaders reveal what matters most. So Kelly O'Keefe said, Mark who focused on paying it forward, why he thought new ways to thrive as an enterpreneur Can you elaborate on that a bit and tell us you know, why you started this book why you participated in this cooperation on that became a number one bestseller. Yeah, so I think you know, a lot of it when I when when Kaylee reached out in the beginning. My first reaction was, um, you know, I've been thinking about, you know, authoring a book Been doing something for years, but just haven't really, you know, I have a lot of stuff going on. And I just keep saying, I'm not going to focus on that right now, I have plenty of time to do that later on. And I just take a lot of notes and journal a lot so that I have, you know, I have things down that I know that I'll need later on. And, you know, when she said that, you know, she was telling me about what she was doing, and, you know, bringing together, you know, lots of different kinds of people to put together a book that made, you know, they tried to talk about what is what is the experience been like through COVID for people, running businesses, you know, supporting businesses. And then she said, you know, that we were going to pick a charity to support and, you know, the proceeds are going to go to charity, it became sort of a no brainer for me. I thought I thought, you know, I mean, you know, Kaylee, I mean, she's just an amazing person. And, you know, her energy is boundless. I mean, just wicked intelligent, and, you know, her vision was just, you know, one that I couldn't say no to, yes, yeah. Just, you just can't say no, she's really difficult to say no, to Yeah. I kinda, I kind of jumped in. And it was a great experience. You know, obviously, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing to be able to say, you know, we're number one bestsellers, you know, congratulations, you know, but it's more the, the experience of it, and, you know, being able to tell a story in the chapter that, you know, you hope resonates with people, and they understand, you know, sort of, you know, how did you can you that there was more than just, you know, the story of, you know, the story of Mark, what did I do during this time, it was more connecting on an emotional and a deeper level, and trying to, they're trying to show more of, you know, what was my experience? And, you know, one of the things that I and I've, I've been pretty vocal about it, I wasn't vocal about it for many years, but I've been more vocal about it in the past, you know, two years and part of, you know, quote, unquote, paying it forward is actually sort of D stigmatising, you know, the mental illness and depression, and how do you deal with those kinds of things. And I think, you know, more people have experienced, you know, what is akin to depression, and maybe it's not a full on depression, from COVID, and this list, you know, and isolation and everything that's gone on for the past 24 months, than ever before. And you're hoping that people are really starting to understand, you know, and gain empathy towards things that, that they've been on empathetic to. And, and not understanding and, and I tell people, like, you know, I've been through depression, it's a very difficult thing to understand, when you haven't done it. And, you know, before I had my own, I didn't understand it. And I would never claim to understand anyone else's journey. Because everyone's journey is different. And their ability to process it, and what it does to them, and how they get through it. But you know, we all need to be here for each other, to help people get through these difficult times. I mean, it's, it's, you know, I saw somebody talk about it once about, you know, he's everybody keeps using, it's unprecedented times, right? And then somebody said, Well, he's in every single part of life on unprecedented time. So we probably shouldn't be saying it's unprecedented, right? It was unprecedented. 100 years ago, it's unprecedented now, you know, everything has changed so much in the past, you know, being a change, as always, but this last, you know, few years has just been just rapid fire change. And I think, you know, there's a lot of good things to think about out of it, right. It's not all bad, you know, the advancement of, you know, the force of companies to understand that, that, you know, telecommuting and, and this kind of, and, you know, work anywhere lifestyles are okay, is, you know, I think that's a very good thing, right? To understand that talent can live wherever talent wants to live. And you can grab that talent where it is, and not worry about it. And I've been saying it for a long time I handle, it was very difficult because I was in a corporate structure that, you know, had a lot of on site people. And I kept saying, if we could have, you know, we don't need people to be here. They don't need to be in this office. And we can free up their life and make them happier, and support their lifestyles. You know, it's no longer you know, like I grew up in, you know, my mom didn't work when I was little, she she gave up her job. She was a teacher. She gave up her job to stay at home with us. And, you know, that's very, that's become super rare these days to be able to do that. You know, to be able to have single income family. It's it's almost a necessity for most families to be dual income. So it's changed the whole world. All right, we have to look at like the global perspectives of, you know, the United States is so much different than the rest of the world in the way we work. And not in a good way. And not in a good way I spent, you know, we had a, we had a my old company, we had a subsidiary in Hungary for we ran business there for almost 10 years. So I was back and forth to Budapest, many, many times spent, you know, if you add it all up, I mean, a couple months there, probably over the 10 years, travelled Eastern Europe, you know, extensively, doing business there. It's a different world. And businesses done differently, people think differently. And, you know, I always say like, you know, you get an MBA, an MBA at school doesn't mean anything, an MBA is going international travel and doing business sooner in another country. That's where you really start to learn things. Yeah, you learn things. And you also appreciate maybe more or less mean, appreciate other ways of doing things. But you also be aware of the way of how you do things, and where you might need to improve. When you look at it from your own perspective, and you look at your own data systems that are creating your own culture, so you receive, so the more you go away from your own thing, and just dive into different other cultures and activities, the more obvious becomes the real. This is, absolutely it is, it helps us self awareness and that self reflection in a big way. Exactly. And also writing a book chapter, I love your chapter. It's so over, it's chosen. Openness, connect on a deeper level with your audience, it's, I will put it in the show notes so people can get access to the book. And that brings me also to the next question connecting on a visceral level. So you are not only the president of Sniderman group, and you're also in sea level positions of other companies. And thereby, with writing this book, and so on you, you became a thought leader, in your field, in your industries, and also beyond. So in that sense, you became a strong authority, and also a personal brand, a strong personal brand, because you're giving back you have a perception in the market of Yes, solving problems, and, and, and getting people to bear the desire to be. And now I have the question to you, what is it or makes an authentic brand? And authentic personal brand? In your opinion? I mean, I think, you know, and that's a, that's a great question. And, you know, what makes it authentic is it has to, it has to really be you. Right? You can't, you know, and I would say, you know, I, it took me a while to learn that. Right, you know, us, you know, because you tried to build this social media presence, and you're building your brand. And, you know, because I, you know, I had helped build the brand of my company. And you know, then I started this law firm, and I'm like, Whoa, I'm wanting to be What should it look like? And you know, and I was watching a lot of Gary Vee, and then you're reading Simon Sinek you're reading, you know, you start reading everybody, right? And you try to figure out where, how do I position myself? And, you know, the, there's so many unauthentic you know, brands and social media drives so much of it, right? Because we're always trying to make this this phenomenal life of an entrepreneur and everything's so great. And those of us that are entrepreneurs know that. It's, it's not always that great, right? It's a grind, right? And ride the roller coaster ride. A roller coaster ride Exactly. Like, you know, you know, when I'm still working on Saturday, we're not going to Saturday, and I'm working all day, and I'm saying to myself is Where's where's it end? And I don't see an end? Oh, it's tough. Right? I think there's there is never an end, you set the boundaries, basically. Yeah. To make itself feel good. And kill yourself also some, some, some time to self care. Right. Right. So the, you know, what I found was, you know, you have to find your voice and what are you willing to put out? And how far are you willing to push and until you're willing just to be, you know, vulnerable and actually, you know, show that, you know, it's not all you know, glitz and glamour, and it's not all phenomenal. And it is you know, it is tough. And it is a it is work. And you know, and showing people what you really are and who you really want to be. You're never gonna be authentic. Nobody's gonna see it as authentic people can see through it. It's not that hard, right? I mean, you could you know, You can name a bunch of brands, I won't name them, but you know that you know that they're not they're doing it for the wrong reason, their Why isn't real. And they're not actually doing, you know, you know, they're not doing what they say they do. You know, I like the I like the belief, I do believe that, that I am putting, you know, I am doing what I say I will do. And I'm supporting people that when I say well, and you know, like, so I would use, you know, like, during COVID, there was a big programme here in United States for, you know, to try to help people get, you know, they were getting money from the government, to support their businesses, these forms were impossible for people to understand how to do them. Like, they were really difficult, they made it, they made it super hard. And people are freaked out in their panic because they can't make payroll. And there's the here there's this opportunity to get money from the government don't pay payroll. So, you know, I basically just would help people. You know, I didn't charge anybody for that service, right? I helped more businesses than I care to say, Yeah, I just got on the phone with and would walk them through the forum, and help them figure out how to fill it out. How to get this money? What do you do when you get the money and make sure you account for properly? And, you know, and but that was, that's when I say I paid it forward? That's paying it forward? Right? You know, do I anticipate do I even care if and if none of them ever come back? To me? That's okay. I'm, I'm totally okay with the concept, because I'm helping the small business that I wanted to help when I started this. So and every and all the other businesses that I start up, I mean, they're interesting to you know, that they're very random, right? In your you might look at and say, that's some pretty random set of concepts that you have. But to me, it's all tied together in, you know, just finding ways to make things better. And, you know, and do you know, and have fun at the same time. I mean, you can't, if you're not enjoying it, don't do it. That's, that's a rule. That's a hard rule. It's about staying true to the sound is off. And we obviously do that, because I fall in and whatever you post and share. It's, it's, you know, I see that it really comes from your heart, it comes from you. So you are perceived as being your true, yeah. So you do an exceptional job on your branding, from my perspective, and I appreciate that. I mean, it's a lot of work. But it's also fun. And it's also something that you're proud of it's you, you are communicating who you are through what you're doing, and also what you're doing with your company. And that's my next question. You have named your company after your own names. Sneiderman. So is there a story behind is their intention? Why your own name? Well, that there's there's I would say, it's twofold. One is, it's uh, it's, you know, I actually probably wouldn't have if my firm wasn't located in New Jersey, I probably wouldn't be named, I probably wouldn't have used my last name. Oh, because in New Jersey, it's a requirement that a law firm have has to have your names in it. Okay, God, the lead the partners that they have to use names, like you can't call it like, the growth firm or something along those lines, which is probably what I would have done. But in hindsight, it actually, I'm actually happy that it isn't. First of all, it builds my own. It's a way to help build my personal brand awareness and my name. But my name is important. Because it's a good story. You know, when my grandparents were my great grandparents came from part, one of all some of them from Austria from Lithuania, from Latvia. And when they immigrated to the United States, my great grandfather was coming through Ellis Island, and they asked and his name was not Sneiderman. Right. That was not our name. That's not even that's not a real name doesn't exist. Our name, we don't actually know what our real name was. We've heard it was Rabinovich. It's like a Russian, like, Indian name. And they asked him, What did he do for a living? And he said he was a sniper. And Snyder is in Yiddish. It's a tailor. Yeah, so they said, your name is Sniderman. And they pushed him through. And so that became our name. And, you know, I like there's something you know, to be able to bring the name forward and use it, you know, as part of the brand that is important to me from that perspective. What an impressive story. Schneider is also gentleman, right. So yeah, And wow, that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing that story with us. And then I want to circle back once more to the very beginning of the talk about sales, how much they helped us move forward and grow. Is there anything in your life on your journey that was particularly let's say, or a significant event that you had that that was a detour or a roadblock on the way? And that you think? I'm glad it happened in hindsight, because it helped me to grow from it. Would you like to share any of these roadblocks or key tools? Sure, I mean, I guess there's there's been a, there's been a couple in my career, that, you know, sort of set me on the path, right. The first one. The first major one was when I was why I left the cable company. To begin with, I grown to a point where I was kind of, you know, supporting the general counsel directly. You know, I was, I was, I had a lot of work under me. And I linked to them and said, Well, you know, I'm not being paid commensurate with where I'm supposed to be. I don't have the title I should have. And, you know, the, the CFO of the company had made a determination that she only wanted a general counsel, and then nobody else could be called counsel. And, you know, everybody else was just sort of a, you know, just an underling. And I said, you know, well, I can't do this, you know, I'm not going to continue to do this amount of work for, for this company. And the general counsel turned to me, and, you know, friends of them to this day, and he said, I can't do anything about it, I need to move on. And it was a, it was like, my first instinct was, well, you know, you need me, you, we've talked about how much I'm doing and how great I'm doing. And you're not gonna stand and you can't stand up and make this and fix this, you know, where's the value? You know, how's nobody see the value? And it kind of deflates? You a lot? Right? So it was how do I turn this into something else? And how do I move on? And, you know, so you have to learn from those sort of points in your life where somebody kicks you, and you get knocked down, and you got to get back up? And, you know, do it all over again? And, you know, find that, you know, okay, well, they didn't see my value here. That's okay. You know, I know what I did, I look back and know that, you know, I spent, you know, the better part of five years, you know, helping that place, grow and do all the great things that it was doing at the time. And I was, and then I knew that I was doing my part. And he kind of whether somebody values it or not, you need to know that your value is, is you, and you put in your effort. And, you know, I would say as long as you put in the effort and the time and you feel good about what you did, it's all it really matters. Yeah, and speaking of effort, and time, what is really time consuming is all the branding. And since you're doing that really well, I would like to know from, from your perspective, or your opinion, to do this, the audience some advice about building your own company, building your own personal brand other siblings a sense of separate will say, that have to be really, really considered, taken seriously. When we start our own businesses. I mean, I think, you know, for me, it's been, you know, really requesting the message and, you know, keeping tight to it. That it's not like, you know, obviously, I have all I have, I'm doing a range of activities, so it's hard for me to make sure that I'm staying sort of, you know, quote, unquote, on brand, right, that it's like, it's within some some channel that makes sense to everybody, where you don't say, What is he talking about? And why is he talking about that? Because it's not even what he does. You know, I would say, you know, finding your niche is really good. You know, you know, and, you know, pay attention to, you know, people do pay attention to the little things like your colours, your logos, you know, that things, you know, it really does make a difference, right. It really creates that environment. I mean, one of the things when I started, the law firm was, I wanted it to not look like a law firm. Right, so, so it purposefully doesn't look like a law firm. While it has a long it lasts longer and longer because I had the name I had I had this requirement. You know, I use a group's logo, I use orange. And that was all purposeful, right? Because I looked around and there was no law firms that are orange. Law firms are grey and black. Can Varun blue light and you know, they promote, you know, this sense of professionalism and orange is not considered, you know, like a super professional colour. It's a happy energetic colour, right? So that's why I chosen. So I would say, you know, look for, you know, what makes you What do you want to be different? And how do you want to stand out in a crowd because there's so much there's so much out there, right, and then just finding your, your, your sound and what works for you, I didn't think video was going to be something that I really wanted to do. But I actually really liked it. And, you know, I tied in with a great group that can help that helps me immensely. I mean, you know, I think you've, you've met the millennials crew, having California, my buddy Robert, and I mean, they're just, they're phenomenal at what they do. And helping me put together these, this, this, they helped me build this brand, and be able to, you know, start to become a thought leader, I don't say I am a thought leader yet I say I think, you know, there's a lot more work that needs to be done to get there. But, you know, actually being able to say what I want to say, and I think you know that that's part of brands, you know, building that brand, and everybody does it in their needs to do it in their own way. Right. Not everybody should be putting out, you know, the I mean, I'm putting out a lot of content right now. And I think that, you know, that to me is important, because, you know, it is, you know, part of what I want to do, which is help people. So, you know, and law firms traditionally will not put out content like this, because it is there is a risk, right, that I'm giving the place. You know that you know, okay, well, you know, you're saying things and somebody's just gonna take it and run with it. And I'm gonna get, you know, somebody's gonna say, Well, you told me on this fit, you know that, you know, I should do it this way. Now, I made a statement of this is how it normally is done. You know, but you know, I do run on risks. So that's why you see, law firms don't, won't do it. Like, they won't put that kind of content out. But, you know, we're not going to break the mould of somebody who doesn't want to take the chance. Exactly. And I like the way of how you speak about your logo and your branding, because it's, it's the tangible part of you, you speak through your colours, it's you stay true to who you are, and what you do and what you pursue, but what the perception is one that is important, because you are not hiding behind something else that is not directly connected to you. And through that, when you are really taking a stance in the society, a stance towards the world, that is you, there is nothing wrong. And people who would not like it will not like it anyway, otherwise. So you cannot serve everyone in this world, you have a certain people that are going to follow you. Because you speak to them. You speak to their hearts to their minds, with your services that you're offering. And I think that makes a strong personal brand. Because you're doing something good. You're doing something you will you give back something to the society to the people here in this world that connect with you on this visceral level. And the logos and all the brand elements. Yeah, your law firm is orange. That's okay. Because it's you, it expresses what you are. And by the way, we have that in common. Origin my logo we do? Yeah. Like, yeah, so it's funny, like ice after, you know, I don't say that, um, you know, all of a sudden, there was like a lot. There was a big movement towards orange in the past few years that you hadn't seen a lot of orange being used. And I think your brand was probably around the same time as my brand. And we were like we had this like, and then all of a sudden are they taking my colour? Next thing brands right. Those are connecting. Good. So before we come to the end of our show, I would really like to do a very quick word wrap with you. Are you ready to give me quick and short answers? I'm not usually quick and short, but I'll try. Okay, right. The first one. pandemics long drawn out. Time to be over. Okay. Leadership, finding your why and bringing people along with you. Good. Disruptive. Finding the whitespace Yeah. And that law, boring. No third attorney, right. Yeah. Last but not least brands, authenticity and showing who you really are. Thank you. And that was my conversation with Mark Snyder an. If you liked my show, head ver to bridgetbrands.com and s gn up for my newsletter to n ver miss an episode. I look f rward to welcoming you in my c mmunity. Also, don't forget to s bscribe to my brandstalk po cast on your preferred app. sh re it on social media and if yo find a minute or two, leave a uick grading or review. Thank yo so much. I hope you will st y tuned in on the next ep sode. When we dive into the wo ld of brands.